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 Post subject: Wifes pc
 Post Posted: Tue May 29, 2018 2:36 pm 
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Her PC keeps shutting down by itself today. When restarted on the black diagnosis screen it says "This pc has be shut down due to excessive environmental temperature.". I'm not sure what is overheating though the message is after the detection of the hdd. I went back in the cmos and set the fans for full speed all the time. However when I turn the pc back on it allows me to start and as soon as I click "Start windows normally" it will be it will shut down without notice. The wife told me, "it says it's going to sleep" and then shuts down completely. It did that a few times and now it's at the point that I'm talking about.


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 Post subject: Re: Wifes pc
 Post Posted: Tue May 29, 2018 2:56 pm 
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According to cmos setup chipset temp is at 92 C. So I'm guessing that's it?. I just brought my portable ac in the room even though it doesn't do a very good job, maybe it'll help some.


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 Post subject: Re: Wifes pc
 Post Posted: Tue May 29, 2018 3:14 pm 
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It was 92 F in our top floor apartment. With the AC I got it down to 79 now. Not great but we can't fit a window AC in this very old house converted to apartments.


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 Post subject: Re: Wifes pc
 Post Posted: Tue May 29, 2018 6:03 pm 
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That does seem high, you might try renewing the thermal interface material under the heatsink, increasing airflow and of course reducing the ambient temps. Did reducing the ambient temps help? Scott.


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 Post subject: Re: Wifes pc
 Post Posted: Tue May 29, 2018 6:16 pm 
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Yeah with the AC on now the pc has been on for several hours with no problems. One thing I forgot to mention that i found strange was that when I went into cmos setup right after this had happened the video was messed up. By messed up I mean it was only showing about half of the screen. There was video on the screen but it's like it wasn't in the correct place so I couldn't access or see all the settings. After I shut it down for a while I was able to get back in and change the settings in the cmos to always keep the system fans at full speed and was able to see all the settings. It's been several hours now without an incident. I really don't like the case on this HP, it only allows one exhaust fan of 92 mm. I'm only keeping this pc going to I get her new one built, should have all the parts by September-October the latest.

Scott what do you think about using an adapter to get a 120mm fan mounted?. I've looked them up. Adaper here. Not sure if that would help temperatures much.

Would the CPU be the only component that can actually shut the pc down because of excessive heat?. Or are there other components that can work with the OS to actually shut the pc down when it over-heats?.


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 Post subject: Re: Wifes pc
 Post Posted: Tue May 29, 2018 6:19 pm 
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An adapter like that won't help much. Many components report temperatures these days and depending on the MB and BIOS design various limits can be set. Scott.


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 Post subject: Re: Wifes pc
 Post Posted: Tue May 29, 2018 6:51 pm 
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So could it have been the video card. I have a video card I recently purchased that I put in there and will use for her new computer. It's only eligible for return till Jun 12th. With Amazon's recent thing in which they cancel peoples accounts for too many returns though, don't know if that would be a good idea. I can't tell video cards temp in the bios/cmos though. Only through windows apps. It's not like she was playing games or anything though. She was actually working and works from home sometimes taking calls for the call center she works for. Luckily she was able to switch to her laptop for that work.


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 Post subject: Re: Wifes pc
 Post Posted: Tue May 29, 2018 7:39 pm 
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A while back I noticed the chipset was 88-91 and it didn't cause the system to shut down. Also I find it suspicious that the video was all screwed up when I went into the cmos during the time the pc was having the shut down issues.

I was also told by Seasonic in my email with them that if the air is getting too hot there is "Safety that will kick in a shut down the psu". Sounds like that is what happened today. The fan I'm guessing didn't spin fast enough to cool off the components in the PSU. Either that or something going on with the Video card.

I'm not sure though, what do you think Scott?. Just let it be and keep ambient temperature as cool as possible during Summer months until I can get the new pc built for her?.


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 Post subject: Re: Wifes pc
 Post Posted: Tue May 29, 2018 8:35 pm 
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FatGuy wrote:
...Just let it be and keep ambient temperature as cool as possible during Summer months until I can get the new pc built for her?.

Sounds like a good plan to me. Scott.


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 Post subject: Re: Wifes pc
 Post Posted: Tue May 29, 2018 10:23 pm 
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Sounds good. After having the AC for several hours I checked the chipset temp in the cmos again and it's down to hovering around 78-79C. I just want to save the video card from it and the PSU so I want to make sure they are not damaged.

The way this case is designed the MB goes in upside down with the CPU on the bottom and the 92mm case fan on the bottom. On the top are expansion slots and the chipset with heatsink, with the psu mounted on the top. So there really is no airflow in the top part of the case. The 92mm case fan and cpu fan pull air from the front bottom where the hard drive is mounted and out the bottom back. I know some cases from HP and Dell are good, but if you ask me this design is just dumb. So no wonder there are problems when it gets hot. My old Vostok case with it's non working usb port in the front panel had no problems today in the 92 degree heat before I put the ac on. I guess putting the mini video card in there could potentially cause problems because it could block what little airflow if any is in that area of the case. However if HP didn't want people to put expansion cards in the expansion slots they should have left them out or not included any especially a pci express x16 slot.


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 Post subject: Re: Wifes pc
 Post Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 10:41 pm 
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I've also had the chipset temp at 100-101 Celsius without the pc or psu shutting down the pc. Plus at that time I had a different power supply unit in it than the Seasonic that is in it now.


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 Post subject: Re: Wifes pc
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:37 pm 
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Update on this: I went in the bios/cmos set up to check on the setting "Hardware monitor" section. Under this section there are a few settings:

"Acceleration starts at 50 C"

"Switches to full speed at 60 C"

"PWM Ramp Range 15 C"

I'm pretty sure that's what it said last night after reseting it to defaults and then saving. I went in there to make sure some setting wasn't correct because I don't remember the fans going on full speed before the problem of the pc shutting down when it was hot that day. So last night after I reset it, it had the settings above. Then I went and downloaded "HW Monitor". I left it on and told my wife to play games as normal. So as soon as the cpu hit 50 C the fans speed up as normal.

Fan 0 on HW Monitor I found out is the cpu
Fan 1 on HW Monitor I found out is the case fan

Now for some reason after it got to 50 C it showed a "Fan 2" and the system only has 2 fan headers on the motherboard. 1 for the cpu and 1 for a case fan. I have chipset cooler I connected with a fan connected to the psu but the specs for that say it runs at 5000 RPM. So the only other fan it could be is the Power Supply fan. For the "Fan 2" that was listed it showed 3 values for RPM as follows,

Value-0 Min-0 Max- 384

I turned on the pc today and checked Hw monitor only shows Fan 0 and Fan 1. I also went back in the bios/cmos to check the hardware monitor section. It seems to have changed. I reset to default again and now default says,

"Acceleration starts at 53 C"

"Switches to full speed at 63 C"

"PWM Ramp Range 50 C"

Now why/how could that happen?. Also why is there a "PWM" ramp range on a motherboard with only 3 pin fan connectors?


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 Post subject: Re: Wifes pc
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:51 pm 
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Also another strange thing is today when trying to get into the cmos I got an error, "Floppy controller failed. Press F1 to continue." Seriously?. No floppy is installed...Another weird/strange thing is the little click you hear when shutting down the pc right when it turns off is getting strangely louder than normal.


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 Post subject: Re: Wifes pc
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:01 pm 
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Through google I found this,

Quote:
If your PC is making a clicking sound right before it shuts off on its own, you might have an issue with your power supply or wiring. That loud “click” right before a shutdown is the sound of power failing and all the components stopping at once. There are a lot of different ways this can happen, but usually it boils down to an issue with either the power supply or the motherboard.

Check your power rails (the cables from your power supply to whatever component they’re powering) to make sure every component has a secure connection to the power supply: the main rail to the motherboard, the secondary rail to the CPU, SATA or 4-pin molex cables to the hard drives and disc drive, and another power rail to the graphics card (if you have one). If everything seems to be in order and your PC is still shutting down randomly, you probably need either a new power supply or motherboard. The former is a fairly simple (if tedious) fix, but replacing the motherboard means almost rebuilding the PC from scratch…and it might be less trouble to simply buy a new one.


Source


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 Post subject: Re: Wifes pc
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:44 pm 
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Scott, it sounds the same as my parents tv did in the early 80's when I turned it off. I've read it could be a "relay" inside the psu. I know the normal sound of pc turning of and you do hear a very quiet click which is usually barely audible. This is loud though.


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 Post subject: Re: Wifes pc
 Post Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 1:28 pm 
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FatGuy wrote:
Her PC keeps shutting down by itself today. When restarted on the black diagnosis screen it says "This pc has be shut down due to excessive environmental temperature.". I'm not sure what is overheating though the message is after the detection of the hdd. I went back in the cmos and set the fans for full speed all the time. However when I turn the pc back on it allows me to start and as soon as I click "Start windows normally" it will be it will shut down without notice. The wife told me, "it says it's going to sleep" and then shuts down completely. It did that a few times and now it's at the point that I'm talking about.


Ok it did it today again. However today it's not nearly as hot. It's only 81 in here today. I changed out the psu yesterday just to rule that out. So I know it wasn't that. In both instances the cpu fan and case fan didn't speed up before the shut down. Also in both instances she had a usb powered fan connected to her computer. Between the time it first and happened and the time space where it didn't happen I had the usb deskfan disconnected. I just connected back up the usb powered deskfan yesterday and it shutdown today. Could there be an electrical problem with the usb deskfan causing these shutdowns?. I mis-understood what she was trying to say before about "going to sleep". That was just the monitor going to sleep after shutdown. The computer just shuts down without any warning. Absolutely no indication that anything is wrong, just shuts right down.

The computer is connected to this ups. So maybe it has something to do with the UPS?. It was clicking and the lcd screen was lit up about 2 hours before the shutdown, but I believe it was just doing a self test.


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 Post subject: Re: Wifes pc
 Post Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 5:44 pm 
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Must be the motherboard, yes?. I just want to salvage the PSU and video card from the system and don't want to cause any damage to those components. Like I keep saying within 2 months or so her new pc will be built so this thing will go to Goodwill minus the HDD, video card and PSU. I may put an ancient PSU in it before I drop it off just so it might start for them.


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 Post subject: Re: Wifes pc
 Post Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:00 pm 
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Found this which has me thinking it could be something to do with that usb fan.


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 Post subject: Re: Wifes pc
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 4:19 pm 
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Ok today it was hot again. I tried an experiment. I left this usb desk fan attached to my computer for a while to see if it would do the same thing. It has not. However I decided to turn on the wifes old computer today. As soon it started it increased the speeds of the fans like it should. So I thought, "Why not connect the desktop fan to it and see what happens?". So I did. It had just finished doing some updates and I plugged the fan in the front usb port. Everything was fine for a few minutes. I clicked "Restart now" for the updates to complete. It restarted and once the updates finished and it started loading windows the rest of the way, the machine shut down completely.

Also, on her old pc the fan doesn't run with the system off, but on my pc it does.

So it's clear that the fan is causing some problem causing it to shut down. Why doesn't the fan run when the system is off?. Shouldn't it run on "Standby power"?. I mean the "trickle" of electricity that should be going to the motherboard. Any more information on that in your book?. What pages?. Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: Wifes pc
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:37 pm 
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FatGuy wrote:
Why doesn't the fan run when the system is off?

Because it's either not an "Always On" USB port, or it is but isn't configured to be always on. Scott.


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 Post subject: Re: Wifes pc
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:50 pm 
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Well dang. I just did a chkdsk and it shut down after it finished and tried to restart. Tried starting it up again and it just shut right down again after the "welcome" screen and blue circle. None of the temps I checked in cmos setup were even that high. Chipset was 98C, the cpu temp wasn't even close to being too hot. GPU listed on the Cpuid hwmonitor wasn't high at all.

I still believe it has something to do with the usb deskfan somehow causing some problems.

I just want to make sure the video card and psu don't get damaged. Wife is still gonna use the pc for a little more than a month. After that I think I'll take this HP and bring it out the woods and do something similar to this.


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 Post subject: Re: Wifes pc
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:39 pm 
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FatGuy wrote:
Update on this: I went in the bios/cmos set up to check on the setting "Hardware monitor" section. Under this section there are a few settings:

"Acceleration starts at 50 C"

"Switches to full speed at 60 C"

"PWM Ramp Range 15 C"

I'm pretty sure that's what it said last night after reseting it to defaults and then saving. I went in there to make sure some setting wasn't correct because I don't remember the fans going on full speed before the problem of the pc shutting down when it was hot that day. So last night after I reset it, it had the settings above. Then I went and downloaded "HW Monitor". I left it on and told my wife to play games as normal. So as soon as the cpu hit 50 C the fans speed up as normal.

Fan 0 on HW Monitor I found out is the cpu
Fan 1 on HW Monitor I found out is the case fan

Now for some reason after it got to 50 C it showed a "Fan 2" and the system only has 2 fan headers on the motherboard. 1 for the cpu and 1 for a case fan. I have chipset cooler I connected with a fan connected to the psu but the specs for that say it runs at 5000 RPM. So the only other fan it could be is the Power Supply fan. For the "Fan 2" that was listed it showed 3 values for RPM as follows,

Value-0 Min-0 Max- 384

I turned on the pc today and checked Hw monitor only shows Fan 0 and Fan 1. I also went back in the bios/cmos to check the hardware monitor section. It seems to have changed. I reset to default again and now default says,

"Acceleration starts at 53 C"

"Switches to full speed at 63 C"

"PWM Ramp Range 50 C"

Now why/how could that happen?. Also why is there a "PWM" ramp range on a motherboard with only 3 pin fan connectors?



Same thing I notice today. The system defaults changed back to the first set of temps I posted on here. Makes absolutely no sense to me.


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 Post subject: Re: Wifes pc
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:17 am 
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Well, it's not the desktop usb fan. Hot again today and I got up early to do another chkdsk, computer restarted and everything was fine for a few hours. Left it on and went back to sleep for another hour or so and then my wife went and used it for a little to play some games. She went in the kitchen and came back and it was off. So I turned it on and same message, saying, "The system was shut down to prevent damage do to excessive environmental temperature."

So I've got to conclude it's a motherboard chipset problem. In fact I've read of a ton of people having the exact same issue with this particular system and/or motherboard.


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 Post subject: Re: Wifes pc
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:30 am 
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Known overheating chipset problem HP


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 Post subject: Re: Wifes pc
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:56 pm 
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Found this related video on youtube.


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 Post subject: Re: Wifes pc
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:57 pm 
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So this is a factory defect and poor engineering from HP.


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 Post subject: Re: Wifes pc
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:06 pm 
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I guess I should have stayed with my initial thought of the chipset over heating because that is the issue with these motherboards.

Scott, I just want to make sure the graphics card and power supply aren't damaged within the next month or so so that I can re-purpose the discrete graphics card and the psu.

For right now I have it set it the cmos again to keep the fans at full speed and have the AC on for today because it's pretty hot.


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