Scott Mueller's Upgrading and Repairing PCs Forum

Scott what do you think of using Intel's Optane Technology paired with One of these instead of spending the money on a Nvme SSD.

I added it up and it'd be $132.99 for that drive plus a 32GB Intel Optane. Plus I'd get double the space with 1TB SSHD compared to getting a 500 GB Nvme SSD. Normally they are around $230 so a $100 savings.

I don't know if that's really worth it though because this pc would be for the wife and neither of us use much space on hard drives, so speed and responsiveness is more important. However I don't know how close in speed to a traditional Nvme ssd this setup would yield.

What do you think? Have you seen any comparison?.

It is only slightly faster than a standard HDD. An SSD would be about 4 or 5 times faster yet. I recommend using an SSD because it will perform much better and you said you don't need that much storage space. I only recommend hybrid drives if you can't find or afford an SSD with enough storage capacity to meet your needs. Scott.

Yes but what about with the Intel Optane "Ram" or cache?. Does that make a significant difference?.

It turns standard drives into "hybrid" drives. An SSD would be much better. Scott.

List of parts for wifes new pc.

MSI H270M MORTAR ARCTIC LGA 1151 Intel H270 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.1 Micro ATX Intel Motherboard. Purchased this today, because I just can't trust the Gigabyte board I got back from my RMA.

Gonna use a PSU I already have.

Fractal Design Focus G Mini Black MicroATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Received

Ram I'll used Kingston Valueram- 1 stick price varies. Just starting with one stick.

SAMSUNG 970 EVO M.2 2280 500GB PCIe Gen3. X4, NVMe 1.3 64L V-NAND 3-bit MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) MZ-V7E500BW - Still need to purchase

Thermaltake Riing Silent 12 Blue LED 150W Intel/AMD 120mm CPU Cooler CL-P022-AL12BU-A Still have to purchase.

Windows 10 Pro 64 bit- $143.99

I've got the CPU from my "old"(purchased last year) board so that's taken care of.

Around $687.36 left to spend to get all that. I've included $140 for Win 10 Pro 64 bit plus the cost of the parts above. Not including the motherboard since it's already purchased today. Hopefully I can get some good deals on the parts. I know it's supposedly better to purchase all at once, but I purchase things one or two parts at a time because that's how I can afford to do it. The most expensive will be the SSD and the ram with the PSU not far behind.

Wish I could use the motherboard I already have that I got back from Gigabyte, but based on my experience with them I just can not trust it. Gigabyte is the absolute worst for customer service and RMA experience. I was going to use that board and was gonna order a new I/O shield. I emailed them and they wanted me to fill out a form with my credit card information and send it back to them via email so they could charge my card. Seriously?. Who is gonna be so dumb?. I said no and they said ok you can just fill out your name and address and then call us to place the order. I called and they said they don't accept credit cards over the phone and that I can fill out the form and then send a money order to the via snail mail. Yeah, no thanks!. Already told you my RMA story so you know the rest.....Gigabyte- never again.

Still have to purchase the OS. Gonna wait till after all regular parts are purchased.

Right now the one stick of Ram + Samsung 970 evo will cost $356.99 total. Next purchase is the 970 SSD evo from Samsung. I might order the cooler also just so I can mount the cpu and cooler to the board, put the SSD in and then put the board in the case. That way I'll only have the 1 Ram stick to complete the build and will only need the OS. Later down the road I'll upgrade it with another 16GB stick for a total of 32GB.

Scott, on The case I'm using it says,


Here

Now I remember a rule I'm pretty sure I learned from you or your books. I always go by, as long as you have more air exhausting out than coming in than your fine. Not sure I would need any front fans but I kind of want one because there will be video card in this case so I figure the air intake from the front will help cool it off a bit. The thing is one rear 120mm fan isn't going to move more air than than 2 120mm fans, or 1 140mm fan. So I'm kind of confused at what to do.

I guess I could just get a single 120mm fan for the rear. There will not be much in the case at all. Only the Samsung 970 evo SSD for storage devices. Plus,this video card

I am not bothering with an optical drive this time.

Maybe I'm remembering things wrong?. Bringing more air in than you exhaust just doesn't seem right to me though. There are vents on the top and bottom of the case though so maybe the old rules that I seem to have remembered don't apply today?.

Give me some advice here. I don't like using 3 pin fans though on motherboards that can use 4 pin PWM fans.

In general you want the case to be depressurized, which means more/larger fans exhausting than intaking. With more/larger fans exhausting in the rear a single/smaller front fan is fine but generally unnecessary unless there is a specific hot spot that needs the additional airflow (such as a tightly packed drive cage with multiple drives). In most cases adding a front fan does nothing more than create unwanted noise. Scott.

Excellent. Thanks for the help Scott. I've got to remember that!. This case won't have anything in the drive bays at all. The only drive will be the Samsung 970 evo nvme SSD. Otherwise just the ram, cpu, and video card will be attached to the board. I guess I forget the CPU cooler which also has a fan that will be blowing air out the back. However I don't believe the airflow will have any air blowing directly on the video card. Then again the case will be practically empty so lots of air circulation regardless.

Thanks again!. Should have everything up and built within 2 months from now on my wifes new pc.

Scott, with this case you are required to screw in the standoffs. They don't screw in flush to the motherboard by hand. I had to use a tiny wrench to tighten them down so they were flush. There is an extra one in the middle of the case already installed but it doesn't have a hole. I figure I don't have to unscrew it and screw in a regular one. Not sure if it'll snap on like other cases I've had with this "placeholder" type piece.

It's a little tight with the back panel because of the large diameter atx power supply cable. I pushed it over a bit to the left so it's not as bad. I could always re-do it but I really don't think that's necessary. I could bunch it all up in the front but then it would look like a mess in the front. Putting it though the holes on the bottom of the case the way I have it was the most logical decision I think. There really is no where else to put it except to bunch it up and leave it in the front like a mess. It's just a very long cable and has to be pulled through the holes you see on the case to make it taught and not look so messy. Hiding them in the back like that is the only thing I know to do. If you have any suggestions that might clean things up a bit I'd be happy to hear. Not that wife cares how it looks or anything. I'm just trying to maximize air-flow.

I'm interested in what you think though Scott.

Running the cables through the back seems to be the best way. I don't see any problems with cooling that way. Scott.

Thank you for your reply Scott. With The Thermaltake Ring cooler there is a "LNC" or low-noise cable adapter that comes with it. The fan runs at 500-1400 RPM normally, however with the low noise adapter it only runs at 300-700rpm. At this point I have it installed with with low noise adapter, but I'm not sure if I should keep it that way. I mean the fan will still work properly via PWM without the cable installed and I can't imagine a 120mm even at full speed 1400 RPM making much noise. I asked Thermal take about it and got this response,



What is your opinion Scott?. More RPMs is more cooling. I'm also guessing I'd get a reduction in CFM with the low noise cable. Really though, can a human actually tell a difference in sound between a a fan going 700rpm and 1400rpm, even in a closed case?. Plus I doubt that it would speed up that much that often.

You would have to test the difference in sound to be sure. I try to build systems that are as quiet as possible. Scott.

At the highest rpm without the low noise cable it's 18 dBA, with the low noise cable it's 13 dBA. According to This site 20 dBA is a "Whisper" or "Rustling leaves". So I think I'm gonna remove the cable. Plus I put in another question to Thermaltake customer service and they answered me back:



I mean dealing with the loudness of "rustling leaves" once in a blue moon when the cpu is working really hard, shouldn't be a problem. The rest of the time I believe the pc will be almost inaudible.

The rear case fan I'm using is 16-37dBA and is also a 120mm but the highest rpm is 2400, so much faster and louder at the highest speed but again I doubt the speed will get that very much in the lifetime of the pc or fan.

I will of course save the adapter and if needed or wanted could put it back on.

Thanks again for your input Scott!. I wish this forum would get as much traffic as it used to, or more people would post. Or I should say post interesting relevant things.

Really can't wait for a new edition of your book and new videos!

I removed the low noise cable today. I couldn't really tell any difference. It's extremely quiet. Also flashed the bios. Still plan on ordering another stick of 16GB Corsair Value Ram and also the OS.

Ok Scott I've got Windows 10 installed. Now I'm having a problem with an older monitor. There are two displays connected. One is an Hp w2338h connect via HMDI. The other is a Viewsonic that is about 13 years old and it is connected via DVI. The problem is with the Viewsonic. My wife plays some Plinga games and uses both monitors, one for each game. On the HP monitor connect via HDMI everything works fine. On the Viewsonic, everything is fine for maybe 30-40 minutes and then the Viewsonic starts "flickering" every 30 seconds or so. It only seems to happen when games are running(from what I can tell).

So far I have disconnected and reconnect the DVI cable and made sure both the power and dvi cable were tight on the back of the Viewsonic. Note that when I checked Viewsonic the display seemed warmer than normal. I didn't think monitors really got warm. I'm using an older Hp monitor as one of my displays and it does really get warm at all. Note also that the room temperature in here is at 60 F.


I have the latest Intel driver for the motherboard vga. However, it was installed with windows. When I went to install the VGA driver from the MSI website Windows told me it was older than the one already installed, so I kept the one already installed.

I believe it to be the monitor itself that's the problem. However I'm not sure. What do you suspect in this case Scott?

Ok Scott, so I switched the monitor out for the one I was using. It just did it again. So I guess it is not the monitor. So should I switch the cables out? There is a new symptom now though. It actually goes black for a few seconds and then comes back. So I'd guess the symptom is getting worse.

Could this be a PSU problem?. Or could it be the driver?. I would switch out the cables but I'm not confident right now that that would be the problem. It took at least 1-1.5 hours to actually produce the symptoms and they are not constant.

The other display connected through HDMI doesn't do it at all. I sure hope it's not the brand new motherboard!. I think it may likely be more due to a driver problem. Maybe.....Then again I'd think that would cause a consistent problem and this isn't consistent.

Scott I found a good quality Dual link DVI cable I had as a spare. Gonna try that. Still not positive it's cable problem. It's an intermittent problem. It happened 40 minutes ago and might not happen again for an hour.

Well, it just did it again with the new cable!. Should I try a spare PSU?

Saw it a few more times. The screen just goes black for a second.

Ok I just installed the older driver from the MSI website. We'll see. What do you think Scott? What would be your guess as to what is causing the screen to go black for several seconds intermittently?

Scott, the MB book says "1x Dvi-D port, supporting a maximum resolution of 1920x1200@60Hz". I have the monitor set at 75mhz but it's at 1280x1024.

Yeah I think I'm gonna take out the New video card I had purchased for her old HP and put it in this new pc. It'll definitely be a better performer.

So I have it installed and I'm waiting to see if she gets the same symptoms. If it was a driver problem or something it'll definitely fix it. Discrete graphics are better anyway. Plus this new build will actually take full advantage of the card instead of that old dinosaur I had it in. When I purchased it I had planned to put it in the new one anyway. It was just sort of a "band-aid" for the old "grandpa" computer.