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 Post subject: Help Panic Broken Thinkpad 7417-TNU
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 3:43 pm 
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Hello Scott, Think I bought a dud Thinkpad :(

Got it today and had a few missing drivers so no problem sorted those,

Ran Prime 95 and failed on CPU 0 after a few minutes

The user BIOS password had not been set, (Admin password unknown) and when I removed the CMOS Battery and replaced the machine now requires a password just to switch on!

So now my Thinkpad Won't boot without the unknown password. It is a 7417-TNU model

http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... ry=7417TNU

Obviously I wish I had not touched it now as it was at least working somewhat, yet the Prime 95 error was enough for me to want to reseat the Memory chip (single module 2GB)

Here is the Link I got it from

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... K:MEWAX:IT


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 Post subject: Re: Help Panic Broken Thinkpad 7417-TNU
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 4:22 pm 
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Quote:
Ran Prime 95 and failed on CPU 0 after a few minutes

That could indicate bad RAM, motherboard, CPU, etc. I'd try replacing the memory with a known-good spare, and if that didn't help then I'd try removing and reseating the CPU, renewing the heatsink thermal interface material in the process. Also make sure that the CPU fan works properly, and that the cooling ducts are clear. If that doesn't help the next steps would involve replacing the CPU and/or motherboard. I'd also try running the system with no battery, along with a different (known-good) AC adapter as well.

Quote:
The user BIOS password had not been set, (Admin password unknown) and when I removed the CMOS Battery and replaced the machine now requires a password just to switch on!

You'll find information on password removal here. Note that the power-on password can easily be removed, but the Supervisor and HDD password are much more difficult. You might consider returning this system to the seller. Scott.

PS: Installing a Supervisor and/or HDD password is a common trick for some used laptop sellers in order to insure payment, and if they don't know the password it often indicates that the laptop had previously been stolen...


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 Post subject: Re: Help Panic Broken Thinkpad 7417-TNU
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 9:16 pm 
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Dave, it looks like the seller stated no returns. Thats really too bad. Maybe you can file a claim or something. I'm pretty sure you can only file a claim if you use paypal though.

Scott, do you know much about supervisor password removal?. I mean if people are making money on it, there has to be a way to learn how to do it right?. I have googled the subject before but never found an actual book on it. Just found people offering there services and some obscure youtube videos.


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 Post subject: Re: Help Panic Broken Thinkpad 7417-TNU
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 10:12 pm 
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Quote:
...there has to be a way to learn how to do it right?

Of course there is, in fact the details are readily available online. Scott.


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 Post subject: Re: Help Panic Broken Thinkpad 7417-TNU
 Post Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 5:52 pm 
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Hello Scott and others again

I feel so foolish about getting this machine, I didn't even check devmgmt.msc (Device Manager at the time of purchase, I was suckered in by that badge!

I Didn't inspect it properly until I got home!

Anyway worst case scenario is a new System Board, I have a (Drum roll) 63Y1195 system board but I can't figure out which FRU that relates too :(

I imagine in the bowels of the Web there is a converter??

I have not tried that serial port hack yet.


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 Post subject: Re: Help Panic Broken Thinkpad 7417-TNU
 Post Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 12:20 am 
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How can both of these statements be true? a) the seller sold you a defective laptop with a policy of "No returns accepted", and b) the seller has "100% positive feedback". That does not compute. <g> Scott.


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 Post subject: Re: Help Panic Broken Thinkpad 7417-TNU
 Post Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 1:06 pm 
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Scott Computers are absolute (When functional, and people are absolute <Insert here>)

He apparently does IT for a Newmarkt Stables, I can only assume his role is "limited"

Apparently he has never been into the BIOS of that machine, I find that hard to believe!

It seems I will be hacking my own machine in order to start it up again, I am nervous about it and might just get it repaired by a soldering guy, (something I can't do)

Thing is with the doubt of the Prime 95 fail, It might be worth getting a new system board anyway, I ran the Prime 95 test before I locked myself out of it, yet I was fiddling with drivers at the time.

I have made large and basic errors with this machine, I feel this is appropriate


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 Post subject: Re: Help Panic Broken Thinkpad 7417-TNU
 Post Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 2:15 pm 
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Quote:
I have made large and basic errors with this machine, I feel this is appropriate


I'll have to concur with you on your large and basic errors. You were able to boot the machine, then all of a sudden you cannot boot it. I think you put a password in the bios and locked yourself out.

Mike


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 Post subject: Re: Help Panic Broken Thinkpad 7417-TNU
 Post Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 2:42 pm 
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Mike, unbeknown to me the machine had a Supervisor password, it did not have a Power on Password.

When I removed the CMOS battery (hoping to remove the Supervisor password) the machine now needs the supervisor in order to Power on.

With the correct password, (or hacked password) the machine will hopefully be able to resume service (hoping that the machine does pass stress tests)


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 Post subject: Re: Help Panic Broken Thinkpad 7417-TNU
 Post Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 2:49 pm 
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Yes, by removing the CMOS battery the system is basically forcing you to go into the BIOS which you obviously cannot do.

I think you were sold a "bum" system and the seller should take it back. Either that or he should provide you with the password which he obviously cannot do.

Mike


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 Post subject: Re: Help Panic Broken Thinkpad 7417-TNU
 Post Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 6:21 am 
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Location: hedon, east yorkshire, england,
my brother just bought a laptop off ebay and geuss what it wont run windows

hd tune reports errors on the drive so it needs a new ata 100/ide laptop drive,

i thought you had more "sense" than to buy a electrical item off e-bay

succumbed by greed or what :oops:

never mind you live and learn " siya later love karl "


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 Post subject: Re: Help Panic Broken Thinkpad 7417-TNU
 Post Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 7:28 am 
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Quote:
i thought you had more "sense" than to buy a electrical item off e-bay

succumbed by greed or what :oops:

never mind you live and learn " siya later love karl "


There's nothing wrong with purchasing used equipment from sellers on ebay. I've bought a couple of laptops. You just need to be sure that they'll be willing to take it back for issues such as the one that David has encountered.

Mike


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 Post subject: Re: Help Panic Broken Thinkpad 7417-TNU
 Post Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 8:27 am 
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Dave are you really gonna waste more time and money purchasing a new motherboard?. Also trying to "hack" the supervisor password?. Really all that time and money could be better spent purchasing a quality thinkpad from the Lenovo outlet.


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 Post subject: Re: Help Panic Broken Thinkpad 7417-TNU
 Post Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 8:53 am 
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David McMahon wrote:
...unbeknown to me the machine had a Supervisor password, it did not have a Power on Password.

A machine with an unknown SVP (supvervisor password) is a *broken* machine. One for which you would never be able to run the BIOS Setup, and one that is essentially scheduled to die once the CMOS battery dies or is ever removed.

I sure hope you will not leave the seller who sold you this piece of garbage with a "100% positive feedback" rating! He sold you a defective product, one that was *not* as advertised. In that case he is obligated to take it back, since the auction was fraudulent to begin with. If he really won't take it back, then it is your *duty* to help protect others from being defrauded by what will then have proven to be a scammer, and the main weapon at your disposal is the negative feedback you can provide.

Bottom line: I see two possible outcomes. A) The seller agrees to take back the unit and refund your money, or B) You provide the most negative feedback possible, essentially destroying his "100% positive feedback" claim. In case of the latter please provide us a link to one of his auctions so we can all gloat upon seeing that claim removed. <g> Scott.


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 Post subject: Re: Help Panic Broken Thinkpad 7417-TNU
 Post Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 12:09 pm 
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FatGuy wrote:
Dave are you really gonna waste more time and money purchasing a new motherboard?. Also trying to "hack" the supervisor password?. Really all that time and money could be better spent purchasing a quality thinkpad from the Lenovo outlet.


We live in treasure island! we pay more than you lucky Americans! Why do you think people go to New York and come back able to open a Consumer electronics store?!?

We don't have a Lenovo outlet here, and we cannot export items form the States (look at the order form at the outlet). Even if we could export taxes would make it not worthwhile.

Scott I am talking to the seller, hopefully he will find out password, from (I assume) the people he gave it to use!

Just occurred to me that the Model type must be wrong as the screen is a 1440x900 TFT

I will keep you all posted...


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 Post subject: Re: Help Panic Broken Thinkpad 7417-TNU
 Post Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 2:03 pm 
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Plot thickens

Seems that the seller (or at least someone has removed the WWAN card, and crimped the connectors.

I forgot the title this thread "How not to buy a Thinkpad"

I need a holiday (Vacation) I think I will take an empty suitcase!

Beautiful


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 Post subject: Re: Help Panic Broken Thinkpad 7417-TNU
 Post Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 2:14 pm 
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Dave you really shouldn't let this seller get away with this!. If I were you, I'd be pretty upset!.


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 Post subject: Re: Help Panic Broken Thinkpad 7417-TNU
 Post Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 2:16 pm 
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If I get upset, I'll tell you not to buy the Newmarket Newspapers....


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 Post subject: Re: Help Panic Broken Thinkpad 7417-TNU
 Post Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 2:40 pm 
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I'm anxious to see how you will word the negative feedback you post in the seller's Feedback Profile. But no matter how you end up wording it, your negative feedback will put an end to his seemingly undeserved "100% Positive Feedback" rating. Scott.


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 Post subject: Re: Help Panic Broken Thinkpad 7417-TNU
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 10:34 am 
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Maybe there's some kind of hack or something that makes it appear that the seller has a 100% positive rating. I don't know much at all about ebay, but that laptop was definetly misrepresented. If you have a lawyer friend who can write a letter stating that the next step is small claims court, only if the lawyer will do it for free. That is if you can find this person's name of course.


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 Post subject: Re: Help Panic Broken Thinkpad 7417-TNU
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 10:41 am 
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There's no "hack" and lawyers aren't necessary. As soon as David posts the negative feedback the rating will change. Scott.


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 Post subject: Re: Help Panic Broken Thinkpad 7417-TNU
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 11:34 am 
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Quote:
As soon as Dave posts the negative feedback the rating will change. Scott.


Scott,

I don't think you're getting it. <g> For some reason David does not want to give negative feedback. Maybe he's still trying to return that "brick" and is waiting for that. If the seller is not going to take it back, then I have no idea why he hasn't posted negative feedback. It seems a lot of money for literally nothing!

Mike


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 Post subject: Re: Help Panic Broken Thinkpad 7417-TNU
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 11:49 am 
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You're saying that (assuming the seller doesn't issue a full refund) David doesn't intend on leaving negative feedback in this case? That would mean completely ignoring his responsibility as a good citizen to do the right thing and help prevent others from being similarly ripped off. Scott.


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 Post subject: Re: Help Panic Broken Thinkpad 7417-TNU
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 11:53 am 
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I believe that is correct. If the guy gives a full refund, there would be no negative feedback due since I doubt the seller knew the system had the problems it does. If, however, the seller does not take the system back, negative feedback is DUE!

Mike


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 Post subject: Re: Help Panic Broken Thinkpad 7417-TNU
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 2:54 pm 
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Dont worry I will keep you posted, I'm very pleased with all the help and advice that Scott and others have provided me with on this forum and books! :)

One small question, if I make an award winning technical book, how can I double my profits ensuring that I feel like constant scribing for the next editions! :)


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 Post subject: Re: Help Panic Broken Thinkpad 7417-TNU
 Post Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:20 am 
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Dave, whats going on with this?. Have you contacted the seller yet about the problem?


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 Post subject: Re: Help Panic Broken Thinkpad 7417-TNU
 Post Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 12:04 pm 
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Yes, awaiting a response The seller has been in contact but not for a while, incidentally the screws on the Thinkpad (assume due to the Nylon coating) are much tighter then normal Laptops, I got some better PH0 screwdrivers today from DJ Evans and hope that I wont round them off!

Scott the security screw on the bottom of the Thinkpad, what size is it, and do I need to remove it to access the Atmel chip (i.e remove the Motherboard)


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 Post subject: Re: Help Panic Broken Thinkpad 7417-TNU
 Post Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 12:49 pm 
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You should find the screw size and type information in the HMM (Hardware Maintenance Manual) for the system. Security screws aren't normally installed by Lenovo, however the previous owner may have installed one to prevent easy removal of the HDD or the bay device (which goes along with them setting a Supervisor password and locking the BIOS). The Atmel chip is on the motherboard, and accessing that is unrelated to any security screws (you remove the keyboard instead). Scott.


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 Post subject: Re: Help Panic Broken Thinkpad 7417-TNU
 Post Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 5:55 pm 
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Update

I (I think rather ironically) used a very weak, cheap T8 driver to remove that screw, the metal is so soft that the pin embedded in the driver! :roll:

Couple of days ago the seller used eBay messages to inform me the password!

So now I have to rebuild it and hopefully use it as normal.

Of course this is after I have ordered the Chip reader from Romania!


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 Post subject: Re: Help Panic Broken Thinkpad 7417-TNU
 Post Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 1:38 pm 
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Well the password works.

Now I just have to rebuild it.

I'm worried about my chip reader from Romania as that seems to have gone quiet, i.e no (promised) tracking number... :(

I'll stick to buying cans of beans from the Grocers in future.


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 Post subject: Re: Help Panic Broken Thinkpad 7417-TNU
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 4:52 pm 
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Scott, what do you think of these?

I can't find a Lenovo OEM part number for this, so assume it's a invention and not a copy

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/2-HDD-SATA-Adapte ... 19bfe25209

http://www.fenvi.com/en/products/show.asp?ID=77

I'm thinking it would be useful for me to hook up customer's HDD's on the road, without using external dongles / psu's


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 Post subject: Re: Help Panic Broken Thinkpad 7417-TNU
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 7:03 pm 
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The bay HDD adapters are very useful indeed, in fact I use the original (IBM/Lenovo) versions of those all the time. I say "versions" because there are several different types, each designed to fit the bays of different ThinkPad models. For example, one of the two clone/knockoff models you posted definitely *won't* work with your system.

Quote:
I can't find a Lenovo OEM part number for this...

I bet you can, especially considering that I've previously given you the tools to find that type of information. <g>

Time for a homework assignment: What is the name and p/n for the correct HDD bay adapter accessory that works with your specific ThinkPad model? For extra credit: Which of the clone products you posted definitely *won't* work with your system? Scott.


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 Post subject: Re: Help Panic Broken Thinkpad 7417-TNU
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 7:43 pm 
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Well Scott, the tone of your reply actually sent a shiver down my spine!

I take on my assignment gladly and will report back when I find out more.

Also does remind me of the time I tried to bribe my maths teacher with a Mars bar after getting caught playing Transport Tycoon! to prevent a ban from the IT resources, I think I actually got some sunshine that day instead!

Sorry for not replying as asked to that original question, but of course you know that I got my T400 instead.

***Seems I need a 43N3412 from the PREF*** Page 268, I however can't figure out which one of those copies is incompatible!

*** Second edit I think the correct name is Ultrabay Slim 9.5mm Serial ATA Hard Drive Bay Adapter III

I think the MFR's site is the non-slim device ( 40Y8725 )***


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 Post subject: Re: Help Panic Broken Thinkpad 7417-TNU
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 2:33 pm 
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David McMahon wrote:
Well Scott, the tone of your reply actually sent a shiver down my spine!... Also does remind me of the time I tried to bribe my maths teacher with a Mars bar...

Shivers not intended, I'm just trying to teach! However I'm not above accepting Snickers, Milky Ways or Reeses. <g>

Quote:
***Seems I need a 43N3412 from the PREF***... I think the correct name is Ultrabay Slim 9.5mm Serial ATA Hard Drive Bay Adapter III

Bingo. You get an A!

Quote:
I think the MFR's site is the non-slim device ( 40Y8725 )***

Only half on the extra credit though. <g> You are correct in that 40Y8725 (SATA Adapter I) is the incompatible device, which works with somewhat older ThinkPad models than your T400. Your system can use either the discontinued SATA Adapter II or the current SATA Adapter III. It is not the thickness of the adapter that is the issue, it is the connector (and keying) where it attaches to the system, as seen in this photo:

Image

Note that the keying (plastic protrusions) used on the ends of the "official" IBM/Lenovo adapters (which help prevent improper use) are usually missing on the clone/knockoff versions. Scott.


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 Post subject: Re: Help Panic Broken Thinkpad 7417-TNU
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 2:51 pm 
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Scott I notice the "key" is missing from the pic of the SATA III adaptor?!? Did Lenovo stop using a key for the III adaptor?


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 Post subject: Re: Help Panic Broken Thinkpad 7417-TNU
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 3:06 pm 
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Look more carefully. There are *two* keys (plastic protrusions) on the adapter II and only one on the adapter III. By the arrangement it would seem that the III can work in place of the II, but the II cannot always work in place of the III. Scott.


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 Post subject: Re: Help Panic Broken Thinkpad 7417-TNU
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 3:27 pm 
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Good stuff, I need new eyes!

http://www.getsomenuts.tv/


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