Login    Forum    Search    FAQ

Board index » Upgrading and Repairing Forum » Laptop Hardware




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Recommended SSD for SATA III
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 6:40 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Mar 18, 2009 12:48 pm
Posts: 405
Location: USA
Scott, I just recently watched the video portion of URPCs 21st about SSDs vs. HDDs which made me think...what specific SSDs are you currently recommending given the rapid developments in solid state storage?

I assume you are still recommending MLC over TLC and that SLC is still too costly for an everyday machine that isn't a server. Also, I'm looking for SATA III support and it would be for a Windows 7 Pro machine.

Evan


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Recommended SSD for SATA III
 Post Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 3:44 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2007 11:44 am
Posts: 5790
Quote:
I'm looking for SATA III support and it would be for a Windows 7 Pro machine. ...what specific SSDs are you currently recommending given the rapid developments in solid state storage?

Note there is no such thing as "SATA III", what you mean to say is that you want both a drive and host adapter that support SATA 6Gb/s, which is currently the highest performance iteration. You can see my current recommendations and reasonings here. All of the drives I recommend support 6Gb/s.

Quote:
I just recently watched the video portion of URPCs 21st about SSDs vs. HDDs...

That reminds me, I have to make the official announcement on the forum that the 21st edition is now available! I'll have some copies available at a discount to forum members as well. Scott.


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Recommended SSD for SATA III
 Post Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 5:03 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Mar 18, 2009 12:48 pm
Posts: 405
Location: USA
Quote:
I wondered if you would bring that up again. I thought for a moment you said "SATA III" on the HDD vs. SDD video right before the 23 minute mark but you snuck in a "Gigabits per second". Hopefully I've learned my lessson this time. <g>

Quote:
All of the drives I recommend support 6Gb/s.
*All*? Even the ones that Newegg lists as "SATA II"? I used this search for drives before I saw this post.

Evan


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Recommended SSD for SATA III
 Post Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 7:42 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2007 11:44 am
Posts: 5790
Oops! I amended my recommendation list to specifically include only 6Gbps drives. Scott.


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Recommended SSD for SATA III
 Post Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 9:11 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Mar 18, 2009 12:48 pm
Posts: 405
Location: USA
I know more storage is better, especially with a SSD (garbage collection, trim, wear leveling, etc...), but do you recommend going with a 120GB over a 256GB if I want to save "roughly" $100?

Evan


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Recommended SSD for SATA III
 Post Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 9:17 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2007 11:44 am
Posts: 5790
If your current needs are less than 50% to *maybe* 75% of the total capacity, then sure. Scott.


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Recommended SSD for SATA III
 Post Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 1:41 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Mar 18, 2009 12:48 pm
Posts: 405
Location: USA
Which ones of those have random read/write access that exceeds the the SATA 6Gbps interface?

Evan


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Recommended SSD for SATA III
 Post Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:08 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Mar 18, 2009 12:48 pm
Posts: 405
Location: USA
My bad. I meant SATA Revision 3.x or SATA 6Gb/s.

Evan


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Recommended SSD for SATA III
 Post Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:19 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2007 11:44 am
Posts: 5790
Drives supporting SATA 3Gb/s are limited to a transfer rate of 300MB/s, while drives supporting SATA 6Gb/s are similarly limited to 600MB/s. You won't see drives faster than that until a faster interface is available. That faster interface is called SATA Express and is coming in the next generation of motherboard chipsets. SATA Express will allow for transfer rates of up to nearly 2,000MB/s, which is more than 3x faster than the 600MB/s limit imposed by SATA 6Gb/s. Scott.

PS: I cover SATA Express and other new related topics like NVMe, mSATA and eSATAp in the new 21st edition of URPCs.


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Recommended SSD for SATA III
 Post Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 3:17 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Mar 18, 2009 12:48 pm
Posts: 405
Location: USA
I was looking for a conversion formula for IOPS. Like this. Using MBps = (R*4)/4 where "R" is 4KB Random Write it looks like 90,000 IOPS convert roughly to 352MB/s.

I was looking specifically at this Samsung SSD and it's lowest throughput. So it looks like currently no SSD or HDD in the consumer market is exceeding the SATA 6Gb/s transfer rate for Random 4KB read/writes.

Did I get that right?


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Recommended SSD for SATA III
 Post Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 3:39 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2007 11:44 am
Posts: 5790
Quote:
...it looks like currently no SSD or HDD in the consumer market is exceeding the SATA 6Gb/s transfer rate for Random 4KB read/writes.

Whether the transfer is sequential or random, 600MBps is the limit imposed by the SATA 6Gbps interface. And due to overhead the observed reality will be somewhat less than that (~550MBps).


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Recommended SSD for SATA III
 Post Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 3:51 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Mar 18, 2009 12:48 pm
Posts: 405
Location: USA
I just wanted to make sure my math was right. Looks like it lines up.

Quote:
Whether the transfer is sequential or random, 600MBps is the limit imposed by the SATA 6Gbps interface.
I got that. I was just thrown by the IOPS and wanted to see them in MB/s

Evan


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Recommended SSD for SATA III
 Post Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 5:15 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Mar 18, 2009 12:48 pm
Posts: 405
Location: USA
I picked up one of the Samsung drives and tried swapping out the HDD. I've booted to Windows 7 Pro Disc w/SP1 (ISO from MS) and the drive isn't detected. I've changed the BIOS to use AHCI (originally on RAID) but at the point where I try to do a clean install, the SSD doesn't show up at all and I'm asked to provide drivers. I thought Windows 7 ISOs came with drivers for SATA but I even tried downloading drivers from Intel. Any idea what I'm missing?

Evan


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Recommended SSD for SATA III
 Post Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 6:04 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2007 11:44 am
Posts: 5790
First make sure that you are attaching the SSD to one of the two Intel 6Gbps SATA ports in the system. Do not attach it to any other ports.

Then I would verify that the correct drivers are being installed by setting the host adapter to RAID or AHCI mode, then reinstall the original HDD, boot from the Windows installation disc, then try to start the install. If the drive is detected then the proper drivers are on the disc. If not, then have the latest drivers on a flash drive and load those drivers during the install. If the drives are detected, then the correct drivers are present.

With the same AHCI or RAID setting, then try installing to the SSD (attached to one of the two Intel 6Gbps ports). If the HDD was detected but the SSD is not, then that means the SSD is either defective or somehow incompatible with your system (unlikely). Try installing the SSD as a secondary drive in the same system to see if it works. If not then the drive is probably defective. Let me know what you find out. Scott.


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Recommended SSD for SATA III
 Post Posted: Thu May 02, 2013 11:28 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Mar 18, 2009 12:48 pm
Posts: 405
Location: USA
I got it installed. I had to remove the rubber bumpers added to the HDD in the E6x30 series. Here is forum post with some pictures comparing the the E6x30 to the E6x20 series where you can see the rubber bumpers.

The SSD was physically smaller than the initial HDD so I used the bumpers but those actually kept the drive from making a solid connection. Once I removed them, it hooked up just fine to the SATA port the HDD was using. Kept the setting in the BIOS as RAID. I remember some post you made recommending using the Intel RAID chipset option over the AHCI, even if you have 1 drive, but I don't remember what it was.

Evan


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Recommended SSD for SATA III
 Post Posted: Thu May 02, 2013 12:00 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2007 11:44 am
Posts: 5790
Interesting, even though this topic is in the Laptop section I had assumed this was going into a desktop system, on a laptop I would not normally recommend using RAID. But even if you never use RAID the system will still function the same as if you set AHCI mode. Scott.


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Recommended SSD for SATA III
 Post Posted: Thu May 02, 2013 3:54 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Mar 18, 2009 12:48 pm
Posts: 405
Location: USA
Quote:
Interesting, even though this topic is in the Laptop section I had assumed this was going into a desktop system
That would have made trying several different SATA ports easier...

Quote:
on a laptop I would not normally recommend using RAID. But even if you never use RAID the system will still function the same as if you set AHCI mode.
Will I need to set the BIOS to AHCI mode in if I decide to add a secondary storage drive?

Also, what is your preferred utility to test drive performance when you test a new SSD?

Evan


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Recommended SSD for SATA III
 Post Posted: Thu May 02, 2013 4:36 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2007 11:44 am
Posts: 5790
Quote:
Will I need to set the BIOS to AHCI mode in if I decide to add a secondary storage drive?

No.

Quote:
...what is your preferred utility to test drive performance when you test a new SSD?

I recommend the following:


Those are all good artificial tests. But for the best real-world testing I like to use Robocopy on big sets of large and small files. Scott.


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Recommended SSD for SATA III
 Post Posted: Thu May 02, 2013 8:04 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Mar 18, 2009 12:48 pm
Posts: 405
Location: USA
Definitely a major improvement. Do you have any specific tweaks you recommend when using a SSD? For instance "Turn off Windows write-cache buffer flushing on the device" under the drive properties (I don't think that one makes a big difference but wanted to check).

Evan


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Recommended SSD for SATA III
 Post Posted: Thu May 02, 2013 9:53 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2007 11:44 am
Posts: 5790
Windows 7 automatically disables Defrag and uses the Trim command on supporting drives. However for XP and Vista you will need to do both of these things manually. In addition, for Trim support under XP/Vista you will need a utility provided by either the drive mfr. (such as Intel or Samsung) or a 3rd party.

Finally, for XP I recommend disabling the last access time (I do this on all XP systems whether I am using SSDs or not). You don't need to do this under 7/Vista, as the system wide disablelastaccess setting is enabled by default on 7/Vista.


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Recommended SSD for SATA III
 Post Posted: Thu May 02, 2013 10:39 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Mar 18, 2009 12:48 pm
Posts: 405
Location: USA
Thanks for the lesson on last access time, I hadn't read that before.

Since this is a fresh install on a Windows 7 machine, do you have any recommendations to eek out any additional performance?

What's your opinion now on "Turn off Windows write-cache buffer flushing on the device" with Windows 7, SSDs, and both used together? The post that makes me wonder about this is a few years old.

Evan


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Recommended SSD for SATA III
 Post Posted: Thu May 02, 2013 10:52 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2007 11:44 am
Posts: 5790
Quote:
Since this is a fresh install on a Windows 7 machine, do you have any recommendations to eek out any additional performance?

Nothing other than what was already said.

Quote:
What's your opinion now on "Turn off Windows write-cache buffer flushing on the device" with Windows 7, SSDs, and both used together?

I recommend leaving it as configured by default. Scott.


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
 
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ] 

Board index » Upgrading and Repairing Forum » Laptop Hardware


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

 
 

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron