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 Post subject: Is losing battery charge in hibernate mode normal?
 Post Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 12:58 pm 
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Is it normal for a T61 Vista machine, in hibernate mode for about a day and a half, to go from 100% battery charge to 89% battery charge? Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: Is losing battery charge in hibernate mode normal?
 Post Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 2:01 pm 
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That is normal for a battery nearing the end of its useful life. A new or otherwise healthy battery should only lose at most a couple of percent a day while the system is powered off and unplugged. Scott.


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 Post subject: Re: Is losing battery charge in hibernate mode normal?
 Post Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 4:08 pm 
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The batteries manufacture date is 2008-07-24, and its first use date is 2008-08. The ThinkVantage Power Manger (PM) reports the battery is in good condition. Does Vista draw more power in hibernate that XP? Or could something be wrong with the battery that isn't being picked up by PM? Is there anything I can use to test the battery? Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: Is losing battery charge in hibernate mode normal?
 Post Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 4:59 pm 
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Quote:
The batteries manufacture date is 2008-07-24, and its first use date is 2008-08. The ThinkVantage Power Manger (PM) reports the battery is in good condition.

How many cycles? What is the original and current capacity? Note that most laptop batteries last only 1 year or 150 cycles (give or take), which ever comes first. And batteries can vary, for example I have two that were purchased and installed on 05/2007, both have about 90 cycles and yet one of them is essentially dead (showing only 32% of its original capacity, and it will power the system for only about 10 minutes before crashing to 0), while the other battery is still working at over 80% capacity. Both were purchased from Lenovo and had the same part number, however the bad one is actually a Sony, while the good one is a Samsung, for whatever that's worth. That may not mean much, as I've seen good and bad from all battery mfrs. and even those from the same mfr. and batch may not perform the same.

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Does Vista draw more power in hibernate that XP?

No, hibernation = OFF, no matter what OS is used. Meaning the power drain when in Hibernation is the same as if the system is turned completely off.

In other words, your battery should experience the same loss even with the system turned completely off. If not, then you don't have it in hibernation, and must be using Sleep (Stand By) or Hybrid Sleep (Stand By with a hiberfil.sys hibernation backup file created as a precaution) instead. If you are using Hybrid Sleep instead of true Hibernation, then your computer is actually in Stand By mode, and the power is not completely off (RAM is powered), in which case there will be a low but steady drain on the battery.

Quote:
Or could something be wrong with the battery that isn't being picked up by PM?

Yes, the bad Sony (Lenovo) battery I mentioned previously was showing 100% of the initial capacity and a condition of "Good" even though the battery had been exhibiting obvious problems with very short running times and a rapid loss of available power while running. Then one day the Power Mananager program suddenly showed it as below 50% in capacity with a condition of "Poor", as if it had gone from 100% (Good) to below 50% (Poor) in a single day, which obviously wasn't the case.

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Is there anything I can use to test the battery?

Other than using it? Not really. You can try the Battery Gauge reset procedure in the Power Manager program, which fully charges, discharges, and recharges the battery. Or you could manually turn off all power management, and run the battery through several full charge and discharge cycles. Unfortunately this never seems to help all that much, and may not help at all. Let me know if this helps if you try it.

Bottom line: Some batteries just don't work as well as others, even though they might be from the same manufacturer or batch. In the end you just might need a new battery sooner than later, just as I do for one of my systems. Let me know how the story ends, Scott.


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 Post subject: Re: Is losing battery charge in hibernate mode normal?
 Post Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 12:28 pm 
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I have tested the hibernate battery behavior on my other T61, running Windows XP, with a standard battery (the T61 Vista has an extended battery). Leaving Windows XP in hibernate for about 12 or 13 hours, battery charge went from 100% to 92%. The battery gauge had undergone its first reset the day before. On the Vista machine, hybrid hibernate was not enabled. Can anyone test hibernate in Windows XP and/or Vista on their T61s, or other TPs, to see what happens? I'm beginning to suspect this is normal behavior.


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 Post subject: Re: Is losing battery charge in hibernate mode normal?
 Post Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 3:52 pm 
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All batteries lose charge over time, even if the system is powered off. Since the system is completely powered off when in hibernate mode (unless you are using hybrid hibernation in Vista), the amount of battery charge capacity lost when hibernating for 12 hours will be the same as the amount lost if the system was powered off for the same amount of time. Scott.


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 Post subject: Re: Is losing battery charge in hibernate mode normal?
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 11:13 am 
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I've tested battery loss on both T61s powered off overnight, battery gauge reads 100% in the morning. It seems that whatever hibernate is doing in both XP and Vista, it's not killing power to the system, and I'm not sure if that's due to Windows, the ThinkPad hardware, the Thinkvantage Power Manager, some interaction between those, or something else entirely.


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 Post subject: Re: Is losing battery charge in hibernate mode normal?
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 11:41 am 
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The system is completely powered off when in Hibernate mode, however there are several functions in modern systems that might cause *some* power to be used even when the system is turned off. Some of these include:


WOL means your Ethernet adapter will remain powered on listening for a "magic packet" to resume (wake) the system. AMT is WOL on steroids, allowing a remote administrator to power on and fully manage the system. The timer wake function allows the system clock circuitry to power the system on at a pre-set time. Finally, Always On USB means that the USB ports will be powered even when the system is off, mainly in order to power and/or charge USB connected devices. Not all systems support Always On USB, some support it on specific (usually marked) ports, while others (like your T61) allow it to be turned on or off for all ports. The Always On USB feature may need an updated power manager driver, for example ThinkPads that support this feature need version 2.03 or later for Vista, and 1.15 or later for XP. Since this support is BIOS related, make sure you are using the latest BIOS as well.

The T61 has WOL, Timer Wake, AMT and Always On USB capability. Try disabling all of those functions in the BIOS Setup. In addition, make sure that you have disconnected any USB and wired Ethernet connections from the system while testing. Let me know what you find. Scott.


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