Scott Mueller's Upgrading and Repairing PCs Forum

http://youtu.be/qqU3LvI8--s

Scott, does Windows 8 look very promising to you?

Unfortunately no. Scott.

Unfortunately it seems Metro can no longer be disabled, on the plus side Window 7 won't be unsupported until 2020

So far I like it. I installed it on a 3-yr old Thinkpad and a 4-yr old Acer laptop, and a clean-install on both took about 15 minutes. An upgrade install on a desktop workstation took about 45 minutes. On all three, it runs very snappy, and appears very stable.

Although I haven't used it yet, the ability to refresh or reset the PC seems useful.

I was previously afraid that the new metro-style interface and the touch-centric environment would make it more difficult to use the classic desktop, but haven't found this to be the case. Moving around using a keyboard and mouse is very easy and it seems that the keyboard shortcuts provide quick access to system management tools.

It's not for me, I see that people are divided on the issue, I feel they should have gone all-or-nothing make it look like a Star Trek TNG console or keep Window 95+ style layout!

Microsoft continues to demonstrate that they don't have a clue about marketing: The 9 Flavors Of Windows 8 Show The Key Difference Between Microsoft And Apple

IMHO, support for Windows XP should be extended past April 8, 2014.

Hello Scott, not sure if worthy of a new thread, have you played with Windows 8? Have you managed to jail break Metro? I'm guessing that Metro is not "your cup of tea?!"

If you want to play with it you can get the Windows 8 Consumer Preview here: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-8/iso

The following utilities can be used to disable "Metro" in the Consumer Preview:

Start8 - Direct download link here.
ViStart

Of course I play with it because it's my job (and I love playing with computers in general), but IMHO Microsoft hasn't produced anything "cup-of-tea" worthy since 2003. <g> Scott.

I think those tips only work with the Dev preview, and not the Customer Preview, I used a program called ViStart (originally designed to provide a Vista Start menu for XP!

From what people are saying about the new Metro, seems to be baked in the Kernel hence the term Jail Break!

http://lee-soft.com/news/windows-8-start-menu/

That is correct, it seems the registry settings and code for the Start menu that worked in the Developer Preview were removed from the Consumer Preview! I edited my post to use Start8 and ViStart instead... Scott.

Seems the race is on to customise Windows to get back "to normal!"

Loaded the preview on a virtual machine. I can see how this would be useful on a tablet or mobile units; but for a desktop machine it is very clunky. In a business environment it would be disastrous. Productivity would definitely dwindle.

Bottom line:
I will not use Windows 8 in a main computer. I think MS will take some punches and will revert to the model that has been working since Windows 95.

Windows 10?

I can just about tolerate it as I use Vistart (link above)

I will buy it come 2014 if I can have a choice of shell, well it basically has two shells it's such a mess, the baked in and compulsory Metro is only in addition to a Windows Vista/7 style desktop

I'd have more respect if they didn't have a Vista/7 style interface at all!

Windows 8 Broken, Ex-Microsoft Worker Says.

I concur. <g> Scott.

Check this out, Scott.

It would be funny if it wasn't so sad. <g> Poor Microsoft, they just don't get it. Scott.

I'm moving to Ubuntu....you guys have a great time.

I think you will have lots of company! <g> Welcome to the forum (or at least your first post, you've actually been here a while now), Scott.

Michael Mace has written this piece concerning Windows 8.

Microsoft continues to prove how much it is out of touch with its customers...

Usability expert finds Windows 8 on a PC confusing.

Windows 8 Is Going To Be A “Catastrophe”.

Well apparently it is a lot more secure http://www.infoworld.com/d/security/win ... vel-200554

That's what they said about Windows 7. However every patch Tuesday virtually the same number of security fixes roll out for both 7 and XP. Sometimes more secure also means more of a pain in the you-know-what to use (UAC anyone?). <g>

Windows 8 is going to make Windows Me and Vista look good by comparison. Scott.

Scott, if Windows 8 does indeed turn out to be a commercial disaster, do you think Microsoft might extend official support for XP past the planned date of April 8, 2014?

That is what a lot of Microsoft's customers want, but MS hasn't seemed to have been listening to its customers for many years now. My guess is that MS would rather force its customers into a new OS vs. extending the life of its most popular product. Not giving customers what they want is unfortunately not a very good business model. <g>

My guess is that companies selling new PCs will have to offer a choice between Windows 7 or 8 at the time of purchase, and given that choice most people will choose Windows 7. If a PC vendor offers systems with Windows 8 preinstalled with no choice, I think many will be downgraded immediately after the purchase to Windows 7 or even XP.

I downloaded the Win 8 Preview ISO and did a clean install on my laptop I have been playing with it for a few days now. First time users of this OS will be LOST at best. if your just poping on to browse the web well then i guess its a snap givin the IE button at start-up. navigation thru 8 is clunky and out right confusing. i finally got administrative tools to display on the start Menu wich helps alot but the fact that it took me about 30 mins to figuer it out was a pain in the neck. the fact that there is no "lets get started" feature will cause a panic in the world of the average user. (i hope they fix this by 10-26-12) for there own sake. needless to say Microsofts newest OS is facing alot of challenges...its good that they made the upgrade cheap..becuase i think most people will revert to XP,Vista, or 7. my advice give it a few months before you decide to take the leap to windows 8 and see how it plays out.

Scott, what do you think of this article?

It's fine, but doesn't tell me anything I didn't already know. Scott.

Are there any downgrade rights for 8?

What is the best way to license and install 7 on a Computer which "features" Windows 8?

Windows 8 Pro does include downgrade rights to Windows 7 Pro or Vista Business, which I imagine most people getting a new PC with Windows 8 will want to exercise. Assuming that is they know they have that right before they end up throwing the Win8 PC through the nearest wall in complete frustration. <g>

To perform the downgrade one would install the downgraded OS using an existing product key for that OS. Then if the online activation fails the OS can be activated via phone whereupon the MS rep will issue an activation code once the downgrade has been explained. Scott.

Scott, I am working in a retail store as the Technology Manager and we only offer Windows 8. We have some Windows 7 upgrades still left, but they will not replenished. I don't know what other chains are doing but I thought you might like to know.

Evan

I would think you would get a lot of people asking for Win7 downgrades, but then again people buying retail PCs seem to be used to just living with whatever they get on a system. I've seen people purchase new systems rather than just reinstall Windows on a corrupted system less than a year old! Scott.

I've had people ask if we still have any Windows 7 machines, which we do on clearance, but no one really asking about downgrading. More people than not end up being excited about it or come around to it after we demo it some. We just have to show them the new features are something they might like and that they can still use the "old" desktop via a tile or keyboard shortcut. You're right about most people just going with what you sell.

I've actually had one customer bring in a Windows 7 machine to have it upgraded. I said "sure, no poblem" till I found out his DVD drive isn't working and attaching an external DVD drive failed to load the drivers. Trying to copy the Windows 8 disc to a flash drive, which oddly works when the USB DVD drive doesn't. Go figure.

Evan

I was going to ask what Scott thought about Windows 8 now that it has been officially released. I read all about it my Pc world magazine that I have a subscription to. It's in the November 2012 issue on page 70. Did you read that article Scott, or are you still a subscriber?. It just doesn't seem like something I'd like. If I want a smartphone I'll purchase one. I'd rather have a desktop pc. Windows 8 is very off putting to me. My Dad just switched over to Mac. I don't think he liked what he saw with windows 8 and he usually just goes to store to pick up a new pc. Really I don't think too many people are gonna stick with Microsoft after this. They could have just improved on Windows XP years ago, instead they came out with Vista. Really what the hell were they thinking?. Why not just keep things the same and make improvements in the software?.

My subscription lapsed, so I haven't seen that article yet. My thoughts about Windows 8 haven't changed since being released. Companies that alienate customers usually don't fare well, it will be interesting to see where MS goes from here. Scott.

Hmm, I wonder if these are related:

Windows 8 Is a Desktop Disaster
Microsoft's Windows chief Sinofsky steps down

Windows 8 is a bigger dissapointment than Me and Vista *combined*! Scott.

I downloaded Win8Pro with the current discount deal they're offering, to install on my old Compaq CQ62. The only real issue I had was that it refused to install on my win7 partition (dual-boot with Fedora 17) without doing a complete wipe-and-install.
As my wife's computer bit the big one, I shrugged and let 8 have the whole enchilada, and gave the computer to my wife. For her purposes, it seems to be working well enough, but now I need to find another sacrificial lamb for another install, as I need to be familiar with it in order to support users of the new OS.

There may have been a fix for the Eight-Ball-takeover, but I wasn't really in the mood to wrestle with it right then.

Nonsense! Both of those OS were turkeys because they crashed left and right on hardware. Pretty much any hardware. ME because of 32bit extensions and Vista for no particularly good reason considering it was already 3 years after its scheduled release date. Win8 is probably the stablest OS MS has ever introduced right out of the gate on a wide variety of older hardware.

The Don't Call It Metro interface is something that one needs to get used to and MS certainly deliberately decided to compel that learning curve which may or may not be smart marketing. Time will tell. But once you get used to the interface--especially if you start using smaller devices with it on there--it grows on you for some tasks. There are still ways to take control but some are still convoluted as only MS can do. But most familiar desktop functions can be accessed with a single control key combo input...It starts to remind you of WordStar hotkeys. After a while it actually starts to grow on you. Makes me want to buy a touch screen laptop/tablet.

The biggest problem for MS is the learning curve will be steeper for people who have not already switched form XP to Vista or Win7. Come 2014 the majority of those people are in for a rude shock. There is always Zorin.

And to say MS hasn't done anything good since XP SP2 is blatantly ridiculous as many Win7 users can attest.

Based on MS history of screwing up every *other* Windows release it seems we'll have to wait for Windows 9 as the next one to adopt. At least in the mean time we'll have Windows XP (for another year and a half anyway) and Windows 7 to fall back on. <g> Scott.

My Mom just got a new desktop pc with Windows 8. Something went wrong with her old pc I built for her back in '08 so she went to best buy. It is Lenovo Desktop. Scott what would be the best course of action for downgrading the new pc to Windows 7?. Not sure if she wants to yet though, she is probably setting it up now.

If it came with Windows 8 Pro, then you can simply install Windows 7 Pro and activate it via the downgrade rights as I posted above. If it came with Windows 8 "Core" you would have to purchase a Windows 7 license in order to activate as there are no downgrade rights with the "Core" edition. Scott.

Just Saw this today

Microsoft has been using BIOS-based "keys" for activation on major OEM systems since Windows XP. This was originally called System Locked Pre-installation (SLP). The BIOS "keys" used in Windows XP are simple text phrases (SLP 1.0), while Vista and Windows 7 use a more complicated Software License (SLIC) table. This was originally called SLP 2.x, but is now called OEM Activation (OA) 2.x. You can find more details about the new OA 3.0 used in Windows 8 here and here. Scott.

Looks like Win8 is unattractive to non-touch screen computer buyers.

I've never seen a company so intent on self-immolation. As somebody with a passion for PCs as well as a stake in the PC business I must admit I find it somewhat disturbing. Scott.

Just be careful that articles like this are not thinly disguised Apple adverts, the media love Apple :-

Very popular (even for people without Apple products)

The element of mystery about them, product launches make national media, when not covering Syria of course!

The "shiny shiny" products and marketing, Apple as often portrayed as only positive in the media.

For many years now it seems as if Microsoft is helping to drive Apple sales any way it can. <g> Scott.

I have to agree with everyone on this. I did buy the $39 version Just so I know what to expect if someone needed help on there computer that has windows 8. But I installed it on a spare hard disk. I am not Dumb to install it on for my main hard disk.

When the beta ISO was out I only had two hard drives 80gb and 320gb and I was using both on one computer. Well I order two new hard disk a 256gb ssd drive and 620 gb hard drive. Updated windows 7 to windows 8 on my two old hard disk. I did not have much issue. Only one issue and it is the Dell bluetooth listed below.

Now I did find issue like some drivers Dell drivers Bluetooth 350 to 370 look in the directory under Windows 64 bit and install and it should work just fine. Some programs have issues you need windows 7 compatibility mode Going into Safe mode different It not just F8 anymore. I am going to keep playing around with it. Then go back to 7.

The question I have for Scott and Mike. When will there be a Upgrading and Repairing Windows Third Edition? Will you start selling it for tablets or kindle?

A 3rd ed. of URWin is under consideration. If or when it is released I'm sure it would be available for e-readers as well as in paper form. Scott.

I concur. Scott.

I have to believe that the execs at Dell, HP, Lenovo, and all of the other major PC manufacturers are extremely upset over the Windows 8 debacle. Microsoft has not only damaged itself, but also anybody else in the PC business. Shame on Microsoft for not understanding its customers and not delivering what they want. Scott.

I've found that W8 has taken a lot of my enthusiasm away when I see a W8 machine even a nice expensive one I just do my job, and get it out the door.

If MS had released a W8 desktop and W8 touch UI for smart devices, the cool kids would have tried to hack them to load the desktop variety.

Scott, can you imagine yourself writing a further book on Windows, or has W8 made you think twice?

Windows 8 has a way of sucking the passion right out of the room. <g>

Heads should *roll* over the Windows 8 debacle. Oh wait.... <g> Scott.