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 Post subject: Which 1TB HDD for NETGEAR ReadyNAS Duo
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 3:29 pm 
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Scott,

I have NETGEAR Ready NAS DUO - RND2150 with 2 Seagate 500GB Barracuda 7200 HDDs.

Oh boy! The community site. (Check this out if you have one or want to find add-ons and pretty much anything else you need to know.)

The NAS was purchased from Amazon along with a 2nd HDD.
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I would like to swap 1 of the current drives for a 1TB Seagate Drive and use the replaced 500GB Seagate Drive in another computer or for archiving. One of the features of this NAS is it's X RAID technology so I shouldn't have any problem running the device with the mixed drive sizes. I realize that I will have half of the 1TB drive unused but I plan to later swap the remaining 500GB Drive for another 1TB Drive, thus leaving me with a redundant 1TB NAS and 2 spare 500GB Drives.

Could you suggest which 1TB Drive I should purchase now and later, considering my roadmap? I've read that you can mix drives from different mfr's but I would prefer to stick with Seagate. I want to get the best performance out of the NAS without purchasing a premium drive (I also plan on maxing out the memory but this post isn't about that.


Should I be concerned about the Seagate customers swamped by Barracuda drive failures being reported? I did see that Seagate isolates 'potential' Barracuda flaw but I don't want to cause myself undue stress.

-Evan


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 Post subject: Re: Which 1TB HDD for NETGEAR ReadyNAS Duo
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 5:13 pm 
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Quote:
Could you suggest which 1TB Drive I should purchase now and later, considering my roadmap?

I recommend "Enterprise" class (aka "RAID ready") drives, such as the Seagate Barracuda ES.2 series.

Quote:
Should I be concerned about the Seagate customers swamped by Barracuda drive failures being reported?

Non-expert "user" reviews should always be read through very thick goggles. <g> Regarding the Seagate drives, many reference a minor firmware issue they actually know very little about, and which was blown way out of proportion.

I have several of the "affected" drives (which exhibited no problems before or after the firmware update), and updated the firmware without incident as well. In my own experience I have had far more problems with other brand drives failing. For what it's worth, I just purchased 6 drives for a new build, and all were Seagate ES.2 models. The truth is that *all* drives will eventually fail, your only hope is that it happens long after you are done using them. <g> In the mean time, keep good backups!! Scott.


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 Post subject: Re: Which 1TB HDD for NETGEAR ReadyNAS Duo
 Post Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 5:39 pm 
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Scott wrote:
I recommend "Enterprise" class (aka "RAID ready") drives, such as the Seagate Barracuda ES.2 series.


I looked at Comparison of each 1TB Seagate Drives listed at Newegg and was hoping you could provide a breakdown for everyone to justify the 2x price difference between the Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 and the Seagate Barracuda ES.2 you recommend.

I'd prefer to spend less but don't want to regret it later. I know the any drive will eventually fail, but would any stability, performance, or reliability issues justify the "RAID" ready drive my particular use?

-Evan


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 Post subject: Re: Which 1TB HDD for NETGEAR ReadyNAS Duo
 Post Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 6:21 pm 
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If it helps the Samsung F1 1TB's are quick! Got two in Raid 1 myself, if the data is critical get Scott recommendation.

http://www.storagereview.com/


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 Post subject: Re: Which 1TB HDD for NETGEAR ReadyNAS Duo
 Post Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:35 pm 
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David,

Thanks for the input. I'll have to take a look at the drive.

David McMahon wrote:
Got two in Raid 1 myself..

Are you using the Raid 1 in a desktop or a NAS? I'd like to hear what you're running.

David McMahon wrote:
...if the data is critical...

It is critical, but given the particular NAS and its X-RAID techology (it's a propietary redundant set-up) I feel I don't need to worry. The likelyhood of both drives failing at the same time is slim. I also plan on adding other levels of redundancy later, so at this point I'm just more concerned with drive compatibility and also want to be able to migrate the drives to a different machine or NAS so I want a quality drive as well. I'm not worried about the Seagate drive scare, thanks to the article Scott linked to. I just want to avoid my tendency of figuring out what I *should* have bought...<g>

Thanks again for the input and link.

-Evan


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 Post subject: Re: Which 1TB HDD for NETGEAR ReadyNAS Duo
 Post Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:45 pm 
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Quote:
...would any stability, performance, or reliability issues justify the "RAID" ready drive my particular use?

Enterprise class drives are significantly more reliable, and are designed for 24/7 use in multi-drive or RAID environments. Note that your NAS device uses RAID 1 in a two drive configuration.

The major differences between those drives include the following:

  • Power-on hours: The 7200.11 is only rated for 2400 Power on hours per year (avg. about 6.6 hours per day), while the ES.2 is rated for 24/7 operation (8760 hours per year).
  • Annualized Failure Rate (AFR): The AFR for the 7200.11 is 0.34%, however that assumes only 2400 hours of operation. If you run it 24/7, the AFR becomes at least 1.25%, while the AFR for the ES.2 when operated for the same amount of time is only 0.73%, which is about 71% fewer failures.
  • Nonrecoverable sector errors: The 7200.11 has a nonrecoverable sector read error rate of 1 sector per 10^14 bits, while the ES.2 is rated for 1 sector per 10^15 bits, meaning the ES.2 is rated for *10 TIMES* fewer nonrecoverable errors overall.
  • Error timeout: When a standard drive encounters a read error, it can timeout for over 30 seconds, causing most RAID controllers to mark the drive as failed, remove it from the array, leaving the array either "degraded" or failed. Enterprise class drives have special error recovery circuitry that responds within a very short timeout, preventing the array from being degraded or failed. Note that even with the significantly shorter timeout, the ES.2 still has 10 times fewer nonrecoverable errors than the 7200.11.
  • Rotational vibration tolerance: When multiple drives are run in the same enclosure, rotational vibrations from the drives results in harmonics that can cause read/write misalignment, read/write errors, and a loss in performance due to additional retrys. Enterprise class drives have a higher tolerance for rotational vibration caused by multi-drive environments.

For more information see the Enterprise-class versus Desktop-class Hard Drives white paper by Intel.

Bottom line: Enterprise class drives are more reliable, especially in multi-drive installations or RAID arrays. Whether the additional reliability is worth the extra cost is up to you. <g>

Note that the cost is not always that much more. I normally purchase either 500GB or 750GB drives, where at this moment on NewEgg the extra cost for Enterprise versions is only 38% (500GB) or 63% (750GB) more, instead of the 100% increase for the 1TB model you are interested in. Scott.


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 Post subject: Re: Which 1TB HDD for NETGEAR ReadyNAS Duo
 Post Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:23 pm 
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Scott wrote:
The major differences between those drives include the following:...

...Newegg left those out, but I'm sure if I looked through the user reviews they'd had some "gems" of their own <g>

Scott wrote:
Bottom line: Enterprise class drives are more reliable, especially in multi-drive installations or RAID arrays. Whether the additional reliability is worth the extra cost is up to you. <g>

It wasn't yesterday...now I'm not sure. I need/want a 1TB upgrade (and then another) but once again you've given me ample reason to re-evaluate.

-Evan


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 Post subject: Re: Which 1TB HDD for NETGEAR ReadyNAS Duo
 Post Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 9:18 am 
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I've been a fan of the enterprise drives since we built a server with a 5 drive raid5 array. We originally used regular hitachi hard drives but the array kept failing. Once we switched to the enterprise drives it's been working great.

I find them worth the extra cost for peace of mind. Just remember one thing:
It doesn't matter what kind of hard drive you get, it WILL fail someday.

Mike.


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 Post subject: Re: Which 1TB HDD for NETGEAR ReadyNAS Duo
 Post Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 10:09 am 
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Everyone,

Thank you for the input. Until now I thought enterprise class drives were overkill. Now I see there are valid point for anyone to consider. I will definately use this thread as a resource and rocommend anyone involved with implementing any level of storage solution to read this post. I believe a lot of people are under the *misleading* (not entirely false) assumption that the various RAID technologies are all that need to be considered.

My experience is in the SOHO and personal environments so Scott's argument about using a 24/7 drive in a 24/7 machine hadn't been in my "radar" as much as it should.

I'll keep up the research.

-Evan


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 Post subject: Re: Which 1TB HDD for NETGEAR ReadyNAS Duo
 Post Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:52 pm 
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My Raid 1 'array' is only really used as a single drive!

From what Mike is saying perhaps Raid 5 is pointless without the proper drives now! In general if a product is released to solve a problem then that means there is a problem!!! Maybe just maybe ordinary drives are not good for 3+ drive arrays!

Just get the best kit you can afford and if you can't then don't!

In Chelmsford there is/was a shop that uses/used an original IBM PC with HDD! Wonder it that is still there and working etc? Might drive down there and have a look!


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 Post subject: Re: Which 1TB HDD for NETGEAR ReadyNAS Duo
 Post Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 8:22 am 
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While I haven't fired them up in a few years, I'm sure my original PC, XT, and AT systems all work fine. That equipment was built like a tank. <g> Scott.


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 Post subject: Re: Which 1TB HDD for NETGEAR ReadyNAS Duo
 Post Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 10:26 am 
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I've got my old Laptop running Windows 3.1 for Workgroups (I think it is from around 93). I believe it has 64MB of RAM <g>. I found it in my fathers closet about a year ago and it booted and worked fine.

Scott, if I run into trouble with it are you going to be able to help fix that machine? I'd love to take it apart but I'm not sure if it could stand it <g>.

-Evan


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 Post subject: Re: Which 1TB HDD for NETGEAR ReadyNAS Duo
 Post Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 7:28 pm 
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If I remember right 64MB is a lot for Win 3.1!

Had an old thinkpad a gew years back used to sit in my bedroom and play doom on it!

First thing to remember when dismantling laptops is to create screw maps! I normally create three.

One for upside down machine (always with front of machine facing you, then before keyboard removal map, then sub-structure map (normally the last map before Motherboard can be removed.

Don't forget to remove Battery and charger before dismantling, and whilst the machine is in bits good idea to change the CMOS battery.


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 Post subject: Re: Which 1TB HDD for NETGEAR ReadyNAS Duo
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 12:21 am 
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David McMahon wrote:
If I remember right 64MB is a lot for Win 3.1!



The memory limit for Windows 3.1 has been reported as 512 MB
here is a link all about the memoyr limits for windows 3.1.

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/84778


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 Post subject: Re: Which 1TB HDD for NETGEAR ReadyNAS Duo
 Post Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 8:12 pm 
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By A lot I mean good! :)


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