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 Post subject: Hybrid Drive
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:29 pm 
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Scott, on My wifes older Pc I've been thinking of maybe upgrading to a hybrid drive. The reason being is to make it a little faster. With a hybrid drive I wouldn't need any special drivers like with an SSD correct?. So I could just clone the current HDD to the hybrid and be all set?


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 Post subject: Re: Hybrid Drive
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:51 pm 
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I don't know if I can find one though. I found an older one with 16GB for SSD portion. The "newer" ones seem to only have half of that.


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 Post subject: Re: Hybrid Drive
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:26 am 
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You don't need any special drivers with an SSD, which would make a noticeable improvement in performance. I wouldn't even bother with anything slower. Scott.


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 Post subject: Re: Hybrid Drive
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:08 pm 
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So with the older pc I linked I could just get an older generation SSD and clone the hdd to it?.


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 Post subject: Re: Hybrid Drive
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:15 pm 
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Newer ones seem to cost less.. I should be able to just plug that into the sata connector on the motherboard.


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 Post subject: Re: Hybrid Drive
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:18 pm 
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You could get the latest generation SSD and plug it into a SATA port. Scott.


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 Post subject: Re: Hybrid Drive
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 4:00 pm 
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Ok Scott. Just ordered This and This

So when I get it I'll just install the SDD, clone it, shut down the pc and take out the HDD, move the adapter into a different slot maybe and restart. Should make a notable difference and I think it's worth the money.


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 Post subject: Re: Hybrid Drive
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 8:59 pm 
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Good job! Let me know how it all works out. Scott.


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 Post subject: Re: Hybrid Drive
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:05 pm 
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Purchased This just to make things easier. So I can put the new SSD in and clone the HDD before I even open the case. Plus I can save the enclosure to use on my other pc which actually has usb 3.0, when I get another drive for doing some backups.


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 Post subject: Re: Hybrid Drive
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:10 pm 
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Even paid for faster shipping. My SSD and adapter will be here Wednesday of this week and the enclosure is guaranteed by the 25th.


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 Post subject: Re: Hybrid Drive
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:42 pm 
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Received everything today. The enclosure is pretty cheap but does the job I need it for for 8 bucks. Clone is gonna take a while via usb 2.0.


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 Post subject: Re: Hybrid Drive
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:07 pm 
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Windows reports this drive as a SCSI drive. Samsung Magician software says it's not supported.


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 Post subject: Re: Hybrid Drive
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:10 pm 
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Think I'll delete the drive and try again.


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 Post subject: Re: Hybrid Drive
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:39 pm 
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This time I'll use the Samsung Data Migration software. I used Macrium reflect the first time and did a clone of the drive. Think it didn't work correctly because I'm going from HDD to SSD.


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 Post subject: Re: Hybrid Drive
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 6:30 pm 
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Maybe that was just normal as far as it showing up as a SCSI drive?. Just because it's an old pc?.


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 Post subject: Re: Hybrid Drive
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 7:00 pm 
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It's still a SCSI disk device. Scott, tell me if this is normal behavior before I lose my mind!.


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 Post subject: Re: Hybrid Drive
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 7:28 pm 
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In the cmos it shows up as "Samsung SSD EVO".


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 Post subject: Re: Hybrid Drive
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 8:03 pm 
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Well I think I may just put a regular HDD back in it. This drive isn't any faster.


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 Post subject: Re: Hybrid Drive
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 8:27 pm 
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Would it be worth it to get an add-in card like this,

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product. ... 6816124045

Maybe that would help?


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 Post subject: Re: Hybrid Drive
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 8:30 pm 
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Found this for specifications. Seems better than HP page for specs,

These are specs for old mb


Last edited by FatGuy on Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Hybrid Drive
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 8:40 pm 
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If you copy and paste that link it works. I don't know why it doesn't work when posted.


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 Post subject: Re: Hybrid Drive
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:09 pm 
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You need to enclose the link in [url][/url] tags. Scott.


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 Post subject: Re: Hybrid Drive
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:13 pm 
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Ok, so what's going on with windows detecting the drive as a SCSI device?. Is it worth it to get a controller card? The specs for this motherboard say pci express 2.0 x 1, so that card should work. Unless there is something else I can try?


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 Post subject: Re: Hybrid Drive
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:16 pm 
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You need to attach the drive via a SATA 6Gbps connection to realize the performance. Scott.


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 Post subject: Re: Hybrid Drive
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:20 pm 
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So purchasing that card should work then?


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 Post subject: Re: Hybrid Drive
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:26 pm 
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It should work but the performance will most likely be at SATA 3Gbps speeds since that is all the chipset supports. Scott.


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 Post subject: Re: Hybrid Drive
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:37 pm 
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That board says it supports 6Gbps,

Quote:
ASM1061 Chipset (Asmedia 1061 SATA Host Controller)
Compliant with PCI-Express Specification V2.0 and Backward Compatible with PCI-Express 1.x
Compliance Serial ATA AHCI Spec. Rev. 1.3, Serial ATA Rev. 3.0
Supports Hot Plug and Hot Swap
Supports Communication Speeds of 6.0Gbps, 3.0Gbps, and 1.5Gbps
Supports 2 Ports Serial ATA
Supports Native Command Queue (NCQ)
Supports Port Multiplier
This card is bootable.
Can use 2 at same time.
Works with SSDs


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 Post subject: Re: Hybrid Drive
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:59 pm 
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So I should get "up to 500MBps", correct?. Since that add in card will be connected to a Pci express v2.0 with 1 lane or x1.


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 Post subject: Re: Hybrid Drive
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:06 pm 
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I'll leave the pc as is for now and order the card. Hopefully I will get it by Tuesday of next week.


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 Post subject: Re: Hybrid Drive
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:19 pm 
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The motherboard chipset is the limiting factor. I'm skeptical but let me know what you find. Scott.


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 Post subject: Re: Hybrid Drive
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:46 pm 
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I don't understand that completely Scott, because I'm using the chipset on the add-on card. It would only be limited by the throughput of pci express 2.0...

Quote:
PCI Express 2.0


PCI-SIG announced the availability of the PCI Express Base 2.0 specification on 15 January 2007.[37] The PCIe 2.0 standard doubles the transfer rate compared with PCIe 1.0 to 5 GT/s and the per-lane throughput rises from 250 MB/s to 500 MB/s. Consequently, a 32-lane PCIe connector (×32) can support an aggregate throughput of up to 16 GB/s.

PCIe 2.0 motherboard slots are fully backward compatible with PCIe v1.x cards. PCIe 2.0 cards are also generally backward compatible with PCIe 1.x motherboards, using the available bandwidth of PCI Express 1.1. Overall, graphic cards or motherboards designed for v2.0 will work with the other being v1.1 or v1.0a.

The PCI-SIG also said that PCIe 2.0 features improvements to the point-to-point data transfer protocol and its software architecture.[38]

Intel's first PCIe 2.0 capable chipset was the X38 and boards began to ship from various vendors (Abit, Asus, Gigabyte) as of October 21, 2007.[39] AMD started supporting PCIe 2.0 with its AMD 700 chipset series and nVidia started with the MCP72.[40] All of Intel's prior chipsets, including the Intel P35 chipset, supported PCIe 1.1 or 1.0a.[41]

Like 1.x, PCIe 2.0 uses an 8b/10b encoding scheme, therefore delivering, per-lane, an effective 4 Gbit/s max transfer rate from its 5 GT/s raw data rate.



So with that add in card I should get up to 500MBps which isn't to far off from the what The drive I have offers.

Let me know where I'm confused, because I want to understand this better. Maybe I'm not grasping thing completely.

Here is where I quoted from.


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 Post subject: Re: Hybrid Drive
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 5:54 pm 
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The performance of any card installed in the system (regardless of the chipset on the card) is limited by the chipset on the motherboard. The slowest link in the chain is the limiting factor. Scott.


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 Post subject: Re: Hybrid Drive
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 6:48 pm 
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Ok thanks. I understand that some "buses" are slower than others so eventually data transfer across the "busses" is going to slow down. With this card, if it works though I should definitely see some type of improvement over the HDD, correct?.


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 Post subject: Re: Hybrid Drive
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 6:54 pm 
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I believe so, but it generally takes something close to twice as fast for a speed improvement to be noticeable. Scott.


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 Post subject: Re: Hybrid Drive
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:15 pm 
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Makes me think it just makes more sense to start purchasing parts again and build another PC for my wife. It's beginning to make me think that "upgrading" a pc isn't really worth it anymore unless you are upgrading the motherboard, cpu, video card possibly and HDD or SSD. Now at that point you might as well just build yourself a new pc.

Granted this computer she has is very old.Under Product release information, August 25th, 2009. Nine years this August then.

So Scott, what would you consider the "useful life" in years is of a Desktop PC today?. I mean that computer is still getting used daily and sometimes for work. However it does make me a little uncomfortable having a PC that age being used for work sometimes.

These two "upgrades" didn't seem to improve performance one bit. Maybe if I get SSD working correctly with that card I'll notice a difference...


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 Post subject: Re: Hybrid Drive
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:34 pm 
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Upgrades from HDDs to SSDs are tremendously noticeable in most systems, especially laptops. Other upgrades such as changing processors are generally far less noticeable, and are not generally recommended unless they are part of a repair.

I've used most of my primary systems for around 6 years before replacing them, however systems can remain "useful" for several years after that, especially in dedicated roles such as file/print servers, music players, data recovery/old media readers and more. The amount of useful time depends on the intended usage as well as the expectations of the user. Scott.


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 Post subject: Re: Hybrid Drive
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 2:42 pm 
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Well, it didn't work as planned. Still was detected as SCSI. The card ran at PCI express version 1, when the specifications I've looked up said it's pci express version 2.0. Oh well, I cloned it back to a HDD and defragmented. Took 1.5 hours to defragment but it's running just as fast as it did with SSD.

I'll now use the SSD as an external back up device. I'm done with that pc as far as upgrading anything. Gonna have to build a new pc as an "upgrade".

So Scott, would you say there is a certain time period where you can call a pc "up-gradable"?. After that period it just makes more sense to build a new pc, yes?.

Would it just be that 6 year period after you purchase?.


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 Post subject: Re: Hybrid Drive
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 6:19 pm 
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Well I cloned the SSD or I should say SCSI device back to a HDD. Anyway I have it back in the enclosure. I've connected to my newest pc with Windows 10 and even in windows 10 in the enclosure it is detected as a SCSI drive.


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 Post subject: Re: Hybrid Drive
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 6:22 pm 
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Even on windows 10 it is listed as "Samsung SSD EVO 500G SCSI Disk Device".


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 Post subject: Re: Hybrid Drive
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 4:16 pm 
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I have the SSD connected to my older pc with the older gigabyte board. I took all the HDD out and have it in an adapter attached one of the weird holders that Antec uses that fit into it's hard drive cage. Anyway it's running at PCI express 2.0 speeds so it's compatible. Performance benchmark with Samsung Magician says Read 397 and Write 420. What I did was a clean install of Windows 7 pro. Definitely faster than the HDD Raid 0 set up that I had before. Don't know if I'll leave it like that or just pull it back out and use it for back up.


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 Post subject: Re: Hybrid Drive
 Post Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 2:53 pm 
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It's fast, but the only thing is the HDD or in this case SSD activity led doesn't work.


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 Post subject: Re: Hybrid Drive
 Post Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 10:50 pm 
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Scott I took my old PC apart, put on the newer Intel heat-sink that came with my newest build. Cleaned all the dust out of everything. I put all the parts back in the old Vostok(sp?) case you used to recommend. It's much lighter without all those hard drives in it. Plus with the fresh install of Windows 7 Pro 64bit and new SSD, it's like a whole new pc. Everything is clean again because the Vostok case was kept in it's box with some bag that it came with covering it up.

HDD activity led lights up and flashes a few times during boot. I wouldn't think it would light at all because the SSD is connected to the add in card and there is no connection on that card for hard drive light or hdd activity.


Last edited by FatGuy on Fri Feb 02, 2018 1:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Hybrid Drive
 Post Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 1:35 pm 
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Vostok case does have power led. I had it connected wrong. HDD activity light goes on for a few seconds a few times during boot but that is it.


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 Post subject: Re: Hybrid Drive
 Post Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 7:29 pm 
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Scott, Am I correct in thinking that the SSD in this case connected to the Pci Express bus add-in card should not normally cause the HDD activity light to light up when active?. Just because it's connect to a different controller and not directly connected to a built in Sata port. I'm somewhat confused on this. The light does come on and light up for a few short seconds during boot and then goes off, maybe two or three times it does this throughout the entire boot process. However it doesn't stay lit up like a normal hdd activity light would throughout the boot process.


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 Post subject: Re: Hybrid Drive
 Post Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 7:35 pm 
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Since that LED is controlled by the motherboard it would appear that is simply due to the design. I'm guessing the SATA ports are queried during the boot process and that shows up as LED activity. Scott.


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 Post subject: Re: Hybrid Drive
 Post Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:09 am 
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This SSD on my old PC(about 8 years old) seems to run almost just as fast as my build from last May...


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 Post subject: Re: Hybrid Drive
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 9:37 pm 
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After using it for awhile instead of my other pc that I'm gonna rebuild with new mb and cpu it's really not as fast that one. It's much faster than they way I had it configured before though, with the 2 HDD in Raid 0.

I'm actually thinking of trying a different add on card for my wife's pc and trying another SSD with it. Thinking of trying this card. This time in the pci express x16 slot because I believe that slot is rated for pci express v2.0. I checked with GPU-Z and that is what it reports. At the moment there is a video card in that slot, but I should be able to use the built in video and still use the dual monitor set up that I have.


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 Post subject: Re: Hybrid Drive
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 12:07 pm 
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This also seems like a good compromise.. Much cheaper than purchasing that card I linked($99) and another SSD($160), so with a little compromise in speed and a lot less frustration figuring out if it's going to work, seems to be the best option. The FireCuda will only cost me $73 and free shipping.

With the add in card and the SSD my cost would be around $260, plus I'd have to give up the discrete graphics card that is in use now. Also, still would not be sure that it would correctly or I'd be able to boot from it.


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 Post subject: Re: Hybrid Drive
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:40 pm 
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Then again I could always use another Samsung SSD and if the card doesn't work right on the wifes pc I can use it on mine.


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 Post subject: Re: Hybrid Drive
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:20 pm 
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I might try a WD drive this time just to check it out. They do have a 5 year warranty which is nice.


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 Post subject: Re: Hybrid Drive
 Post Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:08 pm 
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Hey Scott I finally figured out why the old HP Pavillion was detecting the drive as SCSI!. It was the nforce controller driver. Instead I went to the device manager and manually installed the "Standard AHCI 1.0 Serial ATA controller." Restarted it and now it's an ATA device!. Gonna try an SSD again real soon!.


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 Post subject: Re: Hybrid Drive
 Post Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:11 pm 
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I'll be using this adapter this time though. Plus I'll be putting it in the x16 slot which I'm positive runs at pci express version 2.0.


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 Post subject: Re: Hybrid Drive
 Post Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:38 pm 
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Thinking of getting this drive this time. I like the idea of the Ncache 2.0 for faster "burst speeds". Plus it's cheaper and is rated very well at Newegg.


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 Post subject: Re: Hybrid Drive
 Post Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 2:07 pm 
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Well I ordered that SanDisk with a discount code I got directly from the manufacturer. Ordered straight from the SanDisk store.


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